Video Transcript

[Triumphant Instrumental Music]

Voiceover:
The Game Plan is a production of Disability Rights California, a space to strategize, organize, and posterize for the future of the disability rights movement. For more information on our work, please visit us at disabilityrightsca.org.

Eric Harris:
Hello everyone. This is Eric Harris, and I am with Disability Rights California. And we are, doing our next episode of the Game Plan and have a wonderful special guest, Emily Ladau, with us today. Hello, Emily.

Emily Ladau:
Hi. Hello. I'm so excited to be here. And also, can I just tell you, really love the name of the podcast.

Eric:
Thank you so much. I was encouraged by my colleagues and especially Andy, to have a little bit of a sports theme with, with the podcast, as you know, wheelchair basketball is, is a passion always. And really was my entry into the disability rights space. So, always want to uplift sports and kind of the connection between sports and advocacy.

Emily:
Oh my gosh, love that.

[Eric chuckles]

Eric:
Well, we are really excited to have you, Emily. And, and the fun thing about this podcast is we get to, you know, just really have a conversation about current topics and about the issues in the disability movement and in our community. But, to get started, I think we're just going to talk a little bit about you, our special guest here. And for you to have an opportunity to talk about, you know, your background and, and what you do. And first, I just want to give you huge love and shout-outs and hugs because you are recently married and that is super exciting.

[Emily and Eric laugh together]

Emily:
Yes. At the time of us recording it, we are, a day shy of one month married. So, very, very, baby newlyweds.

Eric:
Well, that is fantastic, congratulations. I know you, you know, the planning, and the organizing and the all the things to come together and to have that behind you now it's it's a great, great thing. And and congratulations on the almost one month.

Emily:
Thank you. You know, it's funny because it feels very strange to talk about joyful things in the context of what's going on in the world. But one thing that was really important for our wedding is that my husband and I were really passionate about making it a very accessible and joyful event. That was something that drove it forward for us. So, in the midst of the chaos, it's nice to think about, um a little happy island for a moment.

Eric:
That's that's so true and so real. And, and I'm just I'm just super excited for you and the journey that you are getting into and and lifelong, lifelong journey as somebody who's now been married a few years, it's it's a fun, exciting, all the things, just all the feelings.

Emily:
I know. I remember when you made the announcement and now, now look at you.

[Emily laughs]

Eric:
Oh my gosh. Yes, yes. It's, we're now we're chasing around a little one and it's just all the things, all the things happening. So, so once again, just congratulations and huge, huge hugs for you.

Emily:
Thank you.

Eric:
So yeah, no, you're, your advocacy journey. If you can kind of reach back into the early stages of the advocacy journey for you, what was that process like? How did you get involved and and get started in disability advocacy?

Emily:
Oh my gosh. So, I was born with my physical disability and it has very much always been a part of my life and a part of who I am. But, when I was younger, in many ways, the biggest compliment that you could pay me was to say, "oh, I don't think of you as disabled. I forgot that you use a wheelchair." and I really had to have a reckoning with that. And it started when I was around ten years old. Although, I certainly did not understand the the depth of it at the time. I think you're smiling because you know what I might say, but I was on multiple episodes of Sesame Street, and the entire plot revolved around me moving into the neighborhood and educating the other characters about my life with a physical disability. And that was really the first moment that I understood on a national platform that my story mattered, and that that representation and that visibility really mattered. It was still a struggle to hold onto that as I was growing up. But, I would say once I got to college, I really started to have that reckoning with myself and say, why is it that I want to completely disassociate from having a disability? And, I was going to be a high school English teacher, but I shifted direction. I call it my "quarter life crisis." And I, I called my parents and I said, "look, I'm going to drop the teaching program, and I'm going to go into disability advocacy as a career." And they said, "we have no idea what you mean by that, but okay." And, um, you know, lo and behold, a week after I graduated college, I ended up doing the internship program through the American Association of People with Disabilities, which is how I met both you and Andy Imparato. So, like, full circle moment here.

Eric:
Yes.

Emily:
But, it it was really just, a journey to figure out that I wanted disability to be part of my identity. And I wanted specifically disability advocacy to be part of who I am.

Eric:
You know, it's it's interesting. You know, the next note that I had was to bring up the AAPD internship because, you know, they had a wonderful celebration, recently, uh, and I always, you know, social media is such a cool way to stay connected. And I just always see the folks who were in our immediate class, in our surrounding class, just doing such incredible work. And a lot of it still is tied directly to disability rights. Some of it is a little bit different, but it's just so wonderful. You know, thinking back when we were very young advocates and kind of entering this space, that experience really led to just so many amazing, connections and opportunities, and advocacy moments. So, I'm really glad that that you brought up that time.

Emily:
It was honestly such a pivotal time for me, because I had so much experience being the only disabled kid in a mainstream environment. And then in the summers, I would go to a crip camp, and, I was surrounded only by disabled people and non-disabled camp counselors, and I never really got to just experience what life would be like if I was surrounded by disabled people and non-disabled people who all cared about disability and wanted to welcome me into a sense of community. There was a shared sense of identity. It wasn't just, you know, you're isolated in a camp for the summer, or you're isolated because you're the only disabled person in your school environment. And suddenly I was surrounded by people who had professional aspirations, and people who had varying degrees of connection with disability history and disability, culture and identity. And it was unlike anything I had ever experienced before. And I think that, for me was the moment where I was like, oh yes, I am fully leaning into my disability identity. But, it really took being around other people who were I guess at similar points, maybe in their professional journey, but maybe were more established in their disability and cultural identities.

Eric:
That's right.

Emily:
For me to learn from that.

Eric:
That's right. And, you know, it was interesting because in a similar way, for me, most of my experiences, whether it be over the summers, or other times, strictly adaptive sports and with wheelchair users playing adaptive sports. So the AAPD experience for me was this first opportunity to interact with cross-disabled folks. People with all different types of disabilities. And it really kind of helped me, because I began to understand in a different way, that we are all in this movement at the same time together, pushing for, and advocating for the same rights, the same ideas. And yeah, of course there are, slight, you know, differences on the edges with what specifically we might need. But, in general, we were all on the same page, and that really kind of clicked for me for the first time when I was in that internship program. So that's that's wonderful.

Emily:
Yeah. You make such a good point. I am sure, just statistically speaking, that I was surrounded by people with non-apparent disabilities for my whole life, and I was completely unaware of that fact. But, being around people who had hearing disabilities, vision disabilities, cognitive disabilities who were neurodivergent. That for me was perhaps not a first, but it was the first time that my bubble was popped. And someone pointed out to me that there are so many types of disabilities, and this almost is embarrassing for me to admit, but, you know, I grew up hearing from people all the time, "well, your legs don't work, but your mind is fine." And I thought that that was a compliment. And it took engaging with people with other types of disabilities for me to suddenly realize, oh my gosh, no. That's one of the most ableist things you can say to another person. And no, that is not where I should be finding my sense of self. So yeah. Pivotal. Professionally in my advocacy journey for sure. But, also, just in opening up my own level of understanding about what it really means to embrace cross-disability solidarity.

Eric:
Wow, that that's really helpful and really powerful to hear from you as somebody who, you know, you've been in all spaces when it comes to discovery, advocacy and and over the years now it's I know it's sometimes it's hard for me to like, process how long we've been doing this and it's, you know, it's part of what we do. It's part of who we are, it's part of what we care about, what we love. Um. You, you know, one of the wonderful things that you've accomplished, is "Demystifying Disability." And I will hold it up, because it is a tool that to this day, so many in my space, including Andy, myself. The first tool that we recommend to folks if they really are getting into this work, or just want to learn about disability in a way that we think is, is most helpful. Take, take a look, and examine this book, and really think about it, and let's talk about it, and all of the things. So you, you know, writing a book is, I'm sure, one of the most challenging things that anybody can do. So, can you talk a little bit about your book, and just the work that you put in there, and what you're looking forward to in that space?

Emily:
Gosh. So you are better at publicity than me because you just picked it up and held it up, and I have it nowhere near me. So, points for that. If you want to be my manager in your, in your next career.

Eric:
Right.

Emily:
You know, the thing about writing a book is that I think people who write books often do it because they feel that they are a singular expert on a subject, and have a lot to offer to the conversation. And for me, I never want to proclaim that I am the singular expert on disability, because I'm one disabled person who has a particular set of experiences that are of course, shaped by the fact that I'm a white woman, shaped by the fact that my disability is physical and does not impact my verbal communication. By my socioeconomic status, by the circle of support that I grew up with. Right? There are so many overlapping factors that got me to the point of writing the book in the first place, that I simply can't say, "This is the Bible or the encyclopedia on disability." Instead, my hope was to give people a tool or a resource based on something that I had long realized, which is, many people just don't know how to talk about disability. And, I always say that how we think shapes how we talk, and how we talk shapes how we think.

Eric:
Hmm.

Emily:
So, if we aren't sure how to think about something or how to talk about something, we're just going to avoid thinking and talking about it. And that is how we end up erasing disability, and relegating it to the sidelines. I wanted to combat that, and give people an entry point that did not feel judgmental. So, that required a lot of introspection, and also learning from other disabled people, because I'm not here to present just my story on disability, I'm here to ask people to think about the broad umbrella of the disability community, and hopefully give them a little bit of assistance in navigating that. So, I would say writing the book was one of the biggest challenges that I, you know, ever encountered. Career-wise, but also really, really the most rewarding. Although, now we've hit the point where the book came out in 2021, next year is 2026, and a lot happens in five years. So I am just so deep in the middle of a revised and updated second edition, that my head is spinning a little.

Eric:
Completely understand. Yeah, well, that is fantastic news. It's I feel like we can claim "breaking news" here on The Game Plan podcast. And, can't wait to share it with, with others.

Emily:
You know, I have been very, very slowly leaking that intel, and it feels so strange to even mention it because, the reality is that by the time it comes out next year, I have no idea what's going to be happening in the world. And I say as much in updates. But I will say, as much as the conversation around disability evolves, there are some things that stay the same. Maybe the media portrayals are different, and maybe the language shifts and unfortunately, maybe some legal changes occur. But, there are some things that I feel pretty confident we can look at in a steadfast way, like treating disabled people with respect.

Eric:
Yep.

Emily:
I feel like that doesn't go out of style.

Eric:
That's right.

Emily:
Perhaps people would like it to go out of style, but my hope is that etiquette is not suddenly something we've completely thrown in the trash by 2026.

Eric:
That's right. That's right. You know, it's interesting. There was a New York Times piece maybe yesterday or the day before, titled, "wheelchair question mark, hearing aids, question mark. Yes. Disabled, question mark. No way." And it made me like I, you know, made the kind of thought that, man, I wish people who were in those circumstances read this book. But just in general, I mean, we've all had experiences, whether it be with friends, colleagues, family members, or others who sometimes it's a it's a small statement or sometimes it's an attitude, sometimes it's a fear. You know, what have you, of like, "Well, I'm not disabled. Like, that's, that's, you know, not, you know, yeah. My hearing is starting to go a little bit, or my vision is starting to go, my back is always hurting, etc., but no, no, no, I'm not disabled." And I think, you know, for so long those statements will go without any kind of questioning or without any, um, comment. And I'm really proud that so many disability advocates have been able to have platforms in a variety of ways to push back a little bit, have conversations, make sure that people, to your point, don't feel shamed or or, called out necessarily. But, in a situation where they can open up a little bit about why they have those thoughts. Why we have as a society, ableism to the point of saying things like that, either to, you know, other disabled people other family members and friends like, you know, some of those kind of thoughts came to mind when I saw that piece in the New York Times.

Emily:
You know what's funny? So, the reason that I even came across that article, is because Andy Imparato posted it on Facebook. And then my mom, who was also friends with Andy on Facebook, left a comment on it. And she was pondering how because she'd also disabled how she had come into her disability identity. And in large part, she feels like that's because I came into my disability identity. And people often think it's the opposite, that I embraced disability because of her. And it's not that she ever taught me to be ashamed of my disability, but she didn't have the connection growing up, to the disability rights movement, due in large part to not having access to social media and widespread coverage and connection about what was going on while she was growing up.

Eric:
Yep.

Emily:
So, when I started to lean into disability as an identity, she came along first, kind-of kicking and screaming. But then, eventually was like, "Heck yeah. Like, I am also disabled. I'm proud." And you know, I love that for her. But, the article you know, it makes you stop and think about why people are so afraid to identify as disabled. And plain and simple, it's because we've been socialized to think about it as a bad thing, or we've been socialized not to think about it at all.

Eric:
That's right.

Emily:
So suddenly, when confronted with something that is technically a disability, taking on that label feels incredibly scary, because you're taking on all the stigma that comes with it.

Eric:
That's right.

Emily:
So I get it. I get the fear. But, I want to push back against it.

Eric:
That's right, that's right. No, it's a, I totally feel you on that point. And, you know, I think it's like many things over time, that, you know um, whether it's aging, whether it's not being able to communicate as clearly as, you know, you maybe once did. Um, you know, different things that we know is, you know, a natural part of life, really concerns folks because they know the stigma that's in place. They've seen people be mistreated. Um, they're worried that that could happen to them. All of the things. And I'm really glad that piece pointed some of these things out. And I'm glad you know, that your book really shines a light on disability pride. On things that people should keep in mind when it comes to disability history, um, terms, all those things. So, so, yeah. No, I, I totally, totally feel you on on kind of how, how that piece came across. Um. Yeah. Go ahead.

Emily:
I'm hopeful.

Eric:
Yeah.

Emily:
That if we can just get to the point where people even feel neutral about the concept of disability, that would be great. But also, I think we are at a point where we have made so much progress in the disability rights movement, and in moving towards disability justice. And yet I like to remind people: you can create a policy, but you can't legislate an attitude. So yes, it is absolutely true that we have plenty of legislation in place that is meant to protect us, to give us our rights and to hopefully make it easier for people to eventually, inevitably, identify as disabled. But, the reality is that our attitudes have absolutely not caught up with the legislation.

Eric:
To kind of, go back to your local of New York City, um, a lot of people are very excited about your newly-elected mayor. And, you know, a lot of people in a variety of spaces, and I think, that's all wonderful. And I've seen and read different disabled folks in the New York community being, happy, but but also cautiously optimistic in some ways, because different elected officials in all spaces, progressives, or not um, don't always do what is required when it comes to accessibility, disability inclusion, making sure that disabled people are at the table, all the things. Um. And I, you know, as somebody who loves New York, and enjoys being in the city, I've been, uh, someone who's been frustrated with, of course, the transportation and some of the buildings, and how sidewalks operate, and just the different things that and those are just and I'm only, you know, talking about some of the physical accessibility issues, let alone we get into some of the other issues with homelessness and criminalization and etc., etc. What I guess is a message that you hope that you hope, the new mayor thinks about when it comes to disability issues. Um, in that city?

Emily:
So I'll let you in on a secret first. Um, it's funny because I feel like everybody plays the game of, "where in the world does Emily live now?" And I never exactly came out and made it super public. So I now live just over the border. I am in New Jersey. I missed being able to vote for the mayor, so I had to watch. So close yet so far, because you can see the city when you look out my window. I say that like it's a luxury. I mean, if you crane your neck and you really turn and it's there. But anyway, so I actually missed getting to participate in that election as a voter. However, I did get to, I will just say, vote for Mikie Sherrill, which was exciting in and of itself to, have a Democratic governor in New Jersey. So, I still got to exercise my voting power.

Eric:
Wonderful.

Emily:
But that being said, because I'm so close to New York City, I'm there all the time, multiple times a week. You know, it's it's like my backyard. And, I think what I struggle with so much is that no matter how progressive a candidate might be, there's always a lack of engaging the disability community. As much as I would like to see, and I think that the new mayor did what he could with what he had, right? But I also think that now is the chance to show up and really work with the disability community collaboratively. And, you know, take the messaging that you've been giving throughout your campaign that you're a leader for everyone, and make that a reality. But, New York City is just such an interesting place to be. I say it's the place that I love to hate and hate to love. Because, on the one hand, it's frustratingly inaccessible and is just rife with a ridiculous amount of social injustices. But I also miss it dearly the second I'm not in it. And one small example of that really quickly is when I'm in New York City, I can call a wheelchair-accessible Uber, which is not a thing that you can do in most places. And I will have one in under ten minutes, most of the time. And that's pretty incredible.

Eric:
Yeah.

Emily:
And as soon as I moved into New Jersey, I can take an accessible Uber back to my apartment if I needed to, but I cannot call an accessible Uber from my apartment in New Jersey to get into the city.

Eric:
Ugh.

Emily:
So it just really goes to show that New York City is such an interesting place. And I, I don't take the access that's provided me for granted, even though it's also one of the most inaccessible places I've ever experienced. But I think that's just the paradox of the entire universe, right?

Eric:
That's right, that's right. And, you know, my first experiences really spending time alone as an adult in New York, was when I would come out to D.C. for internships, including AAPD. Because I realized, oh, I can, like, catch a bus or, train up to the city and hang out. And it was my first opportunity to see all the wonderful things, and the frustrating things at the same time. To your point, of like, access in some ways, not access and inaccessibility in others. So, so no, you're exactly right there. Um, and, you know, hopefully and we'll we'll do some fun, even though, of course, we're in California, we'll do some fun social media posts and reach out to Mayor Mamdani, and make sure that he knows that disability advocates, especially near his city, or within his city, but really all over the place are looking to, this new opportunity for him, and for the city to lean into be more, accountable to the disability community.

Emily:
Accountability from coast-to-coast. Just in case you just in case you want a campaign title.

Eric:
That's right, that's exactly right. Exactly right. Oh. So the last thing I wanted to to mention or ask you about, I've seen, you know, we all use kind of different platforms to get the word out, get our thoughts out. And I've seen your, availability more often on, um Substack. Um and I know that there are a variety of different platforms. All of them have their issues. Some of them have their their benefits that we can lean into a little bit. But what is it about Substack that draws you, and kind of makes you feel like it's a it's worthwhile to spend some time getting your thoughts out there and, and those sorts of things?

Emily:
I think it's so important for me to acknowledge exactly what you said, that there is no perfect social media platform, and they all have their problems. And Substack has long been mired in controversy over who they allowed to use their platform.

Eric:
Yep.

Emily:
And, I am, at least for now, of the mindset that we have a finite number of tools available to us. And if we can use those tools for good, even when some people are using them for nefarious purposes, that it still is a worthwhile endeavor. So, I'm pretty focused right now on, yes, Substack, also Instagram and LinkedIn. I really miss disability Twitter. May it rest in peace, but Substack to me, is a place where I can really learn from the perspectives of other people. It's a place where the writing for better or worse, is not edited and filtered and forced through mainstream restrictions, which, as we've seen in the media industry, the pushback against diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives are having such a major impact, like the layoffs of the staff who were at Teen Vogue, which was doing incredible work, covering a lot of key social justice issues. So for me, it feels like I can use Substack as a place to connect with people directly, unfiltered, share my thoughts, even if they're not fully formed and perfectly polished for a professional outlet, and really be a human being.

Eric:
That's right.

Emily:
And that's what I love. I can work through things, think through things, and have a community to do it alongside me.

Eric:
That's beautiful. Well, it's been wonderful to follow it along and kind of check it out, share it, read it and all the things. And, uh, the last question I have for you, Emily, is what is your game plan for the next 12 months, Six months, however you want to think about it, just what are you looking forward to thinking about working on? Like, what do you want to personally have as a goal for the next, year-ish?

Emily:
My goal is to do whatever I can in service of the movement and sounds so cliche, but I'm hoping that the updates to my book are going to be my way of doing that. And other than that, the game plan is to survive, and to make sure that everybody else does too.

Eric:
That's right. I think that is a wonderful kind of pin. And a knot to tie there. And exactly right that just getting through day by day and trying to be, be present as best you can, in this space is a wonderful thing. So thank you again, Emily, for for joining The Game Plan today. And once again, congratulations on everything. And, we'll be in touch soon. Hopefully, I can either come out there or you can come out to California. We can. We can have lunch or something.

Emily:
I'm telling you, it's that accountability coast-to-coast. We got to get it started.

Eric:
That's right, that's right. Well, thank you so much, Emily. Really appreciate having you.

Emily:
Thank you for having me, Eric. Thank you for all the work that you do, and for holding space for this conversation.

Eric:
Absolutely.

[Triumphant music plays]

This has been the Game Plan a production of Disability Rights. California, please like subscribe, comment on the platform of your choice. See you next time.