Video Transcript

Eric Harris:
Hey everyone, this is Eric Harris with Disability Rights California, the host of The Game Plan. And today, we interviewed Michelle Bishop with the National Disability Rights Network, to talk about voting with so much going on around the country, voting issues, voting policy, the SAVE Act in Washington, D.C. There is just so much going on when it comes to voting access and the impact on voters with disabilities. Big shout out to the Voting Rights Practice group at Disability Rights California. They do such amazing work, and have done such a great, great job taking on the leadership role of advocating for voters with disabilities. Making sure that we all have the access to vote. So I hope you all enjoyed the episode. It was wonderful to talk to Michelle Bishop about voting and some of her work and what she has experienced, and some of the tips that she has for voters with disabilities to keep in mind as they get ready to vote later this year. Both in the primary and the general election. So hope you all enjoy the show.

[Triumphant Instrumental Music]

Voiceover:
The Game Plan is a production of Disability Rights California, a space to strategize, organize, and posterize for the future of the disability rights movement. For more information on our work, please visit us at disabilityrightsca.org.

Eric:
Hello everyone, this is Eric Harris with Disability Rights California and we are with The Game Plan with Disability Rights California. And our special guest, Michelle Bishop from NDRN the National Disability Rights Network. Welcome, Michelle.

Michelle Bishop:
Eric, thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here today.

Eric:
Absolutely, we're thrilled to have you as well and look forward to talking to you about voting such an important issue all the time, but especially right now with everything that's happening at the national level, everything that's happening in California. And just, the importance of voting and civic engagement, especially for people with disabilities.

Michelle:
Absolutely. And look, voting, that's my thing. I love it, and I know you do too. I bet we could talk about this all day.

Eric:
Absolutely. Thank you so much. So how did you get inspired to to have voting as a key issue for you? For so many people, civic engagement is an important issue. A lot of people get nervous about, "How do I get engaged? I'm not really an activist. I'm not really, I don't see myself as overly political or an advocate." But how did how did voting kind of become your thing?

Michelle:
I wish I had a better and significantly less nerdy answer, than the one that I have to this question, Eric, it's that I have always been that person. And it's a really good point. You talk about civic engagement and voting and people don't always think about it year-round. It's something folks tend to think about every four years. Every two years at best. It was always something I thought about all the time. I was always that activist, advocate, personality, but I was just born to be voting nerd. I bet your team at Disability Rights California knows this about me. I registered to vote the day I turned 18. This is become, yes, like a legendary story of just election nerdiness because importantly, it was not an election year. It's not like I was getting ready to go vote. I was just really stoked that I was an eligible voter. And this is going to show my age a little bit, but it's okay. I can fess up to this. This was before we had online voter registration. It's not like on my birthday, I went online. I had to go to the library and get a voter registration card and like, return it. And I was just really excited about voting in the future. So there was no for me, no, like tipping point, no, like moment. It was just always something that I thought, "This really matters." And so I'm, just been I've been really lucky and really fortunate that I get to do this for a living as well, and hopefully share some of that passion with it with other folks and get them excited about voting, too.

Eric:
I love it, I love it. That is an awesome, very nerdy, but but definitely an awesome story. [Eric laughs]

Michelle:
That's how a lot of us end up in this business. There's just election geeks out there hiding amongst us and we end up doing this work.

Eric:
I love it, I love it. Well, can you tell folks a little bit about your role at NDRN specifically and kind of, what you tend to focus on in your job?

Michelle:
Absolutely, yeah. We're the membership organization for organizations like Disability Rights California that exist in every state, in DC, all of the inhabited territories. So the work that you're doing at the state level, California, that's your turf, right? Your amazing team that you have a Disability Rights California, are working all the time to make elections as accessible as possible for people with disabilities. And it's my job to just provide support for that through training and technical assistance. That's the main thing that I do, is just talk with the people who are working on access to the vote in our network, all over the country, and help them to find training and resources and partners and supports and whatever it is that they need to do the amazing work that they do. And then I get to also do this work at the national level, right? We also represent the network nationwide. So if there is, sometimes, stuff with elections happening like in Congress, then we get to do that on behalf of the network. But the heart of it really is getting to talk with folks on the ground who are doing this work. Because that's really where the action is, right? Elections are so state and so local more than anything else, and they look really different all over the country. So figuring out what's going to make it work for people with disabilities where they are and helping to put processes in place to make it work and get voters registered and excited about voting.

Eric:
That's fantastic. What would you say, are some of the things that have been going right when it comes to excess, access to voting for, for voters with disabilities? Of course, if you have any, anything in mind for California specifically, but also just anywhere nationally, that you think, things are going in the right direction.

Michelle:
That's a actually really interesting question, Eric, because it's so with elections being run differently everywhere across the states, I find that it's always a bit of a mixed bag, right? If you looked at any one state, there are probably ten things I think they're doing that are phenomenal and I want every state to do it. And then another ten things I'm like, this doesn't really work for people with disabilities. We need we need to update this. There are actually some things I really like that I see in California. In particular I think California is really open and participatory about the process, right? California really makes a commitment to talking to all of the stakeholders about what do you need to make voting work for you, and then trying to make that happen. And I think being really open and transparent with your process, one of the things I like about that, is like these commissions that you have all over the state, these like voting commissions that stakeholders can be a part of to talk about how elections are run and people with disabilities are part of those. And I think you really have to include people with disabilities from the start of the process to make it accessible. And I'm sure that's true for everything we can think of. But voting is my piece of it. So in terms of elections, I know it's definitely true. If we try to design an elections process and then say, how does this work for people with disabilities, we end up having to go back and retrofit a bunch of things that didn't work, and that costs a lot more time, a lot more money than having people with disabilities at the table from the start, to talk about what it is, because we know us better than anybody else, right? And that's what I like about those partnerships, is that elections officials, they know so much about running elections, which is actually really big and really complicated. But we know the most about us and what makes things accessible for us and what we need, when we take those two areas of expertise, when we put them together, we can make really great things happen. So whenever I see a process like that in place, I really like that. But I also think we've seen some real strides, oddly since 2020. Like, I don't know if anyone thinks, "2020. That was an awesome year, right?"

Eric:
Right, right. [Eric laughs]

Michelle:
Great things [Michelle laughs] happening in 2020, when I never left my house and was afraid all the time. But because it was also a presidential election, we had to figure out on the fly, how are we going to make sure everyone can still vote when we're supposed to, like, stay six feet apart and all that? And I mean, this was back in the day, right? There were no vaccines yet. We're still wearing like, cloth masks we bought on Etsy most of the time. Like this was the early days of COVID, and we had to figure out how to run a presidential election, that tens of millions of people are going to show up for. And so elections officials made a lot of decisions just on the fly that actually just make things a lot more accessible for everyone, right? They added early voting or expanded their early voting. They took down some of the barriers to voting by mail, like needing notaries and witness signatures and things like that. They pushed those deadlines back a little bit. They added curbside voting and things like that so that if you are high risk for COVID, you didn't have to go inside. You could stay in your vehicle with your mask on, right? They'll come out to you. Or more importantly, if you have COVID and it's too late to get an absentee ballot, you can stay in your car with your mask on and they'll just come to you, and you don't go inside and you get everybody else infected. So we did a lot of things that were different in 2020 that I think made it oddly just like this really accessible election. It just drove a lot of progress. And I think what we've seen in the last few years since then is some of those things becoming more permanent changes and then push back against some of those things. So there's really a lot of push pull in all the states right now, but there's actually been a lot of changes to the way we do elections and things like that that came out of COVID. In Texas they did drive through voting, which we'd never seen before. Curbside is one thing. Drive through was like for efficiency, right? Like,

Eric:
Right. [Michelle laughs]

Michelle:
It's, they set it up like a COVID testing site, which is which was pretty brilliant at the time. And those were things that just hadn't really been done before. So I think we've actually seen a lot of progress. I think it looks really different everywhere. But if we kind of learn those lessons from each other and we take them and we share them with other states, I think we could kind of keep moving the ball down the field. I don't know where a sports metaphor came from, Eric. I don't I don't watch football. [Eric and Michelle laugh]

Eric:
It makes sense. It makes perfect sense.

Michelle:
So you get the idea. I watched, like roughly 20 minutes of the last Super Bowl, and it was just bad Bunny. That was all I was in it for. And then I went back to the snacks and the conversations. So I don't know.

Eric:
That's right, that's right.

Michelle:
But I frequently use football metaphors. So dude, don't be fooled, please. It's not. [Michelle and Eric laugh]

Eric:
Oh no, that I feel like that one really made sense. It really kind of tied everything together. Because you're exactly right. [Eric and Michelle laugh] And it's so true. It's such an interesting like, 2020 obviously was such a, kind of, a tipping point moment for so many in terms of obviously the terrible circumstances with COVID and health and everybody being terrified and then a tipping point for, oh, like all these things that disabled people have been pushing for and advocating for in terms of accessibility and in terms of remote kind of participation and on and on and on, as you know, we can do this and people like it and it helps everyone.

Michelle:
Yes.

Eric:
You know.

Michelle:
That was one of those light bulb moments where it was like, oh, this, this makes sense for everyone. And it's like, if only we had been telling you that for decades now but okay.

Eric:
Exactly, exactly. [Michelle and Eric laugh]

Michelle:
One of my favorite examples is like curb cuts, you know, like the curb cut one, where it's like those were put in for people who use wheelchairs to be able to get on and off the sidewalk. But, you know, everyone pushing a stroller, dragging some luggage, someone who just happened to, like, strain a leg and have crutches is using that curb cut, like it benefits everybody, no matter who it was put there for elections are very much like that as well.

Eric:
That is exactly spot on. That is exactly spot on. So we're obviously it's, you know, 2026, we're in a midterm election year. What would you recommend for voters with disabilities, older voters, other voters who might need a little bit more time or need a little bit more access? What would you recommend to them this year in particular as they, plan on voting in the primary and then eventually in the general election later this year?

Michelle:
That's a great question. And it's it's almost a little bit what we always recommend, which I know DRC recommends as well, which is making your plan to vote, make that plan ahead of time. Nobody wants a surprise on Election Day when you know it's, election day is the last day of a process, right? Most places now you can vote by mail or there's early voting. There's something. And election day is like the culmination of all that. You don't want to show up when there's only a few hours left of voting and get a rude surprise, right? So you want to make your plan. You want to make sure you're registered, check your registration, make sure you're still on the rolls. Nothing's gone wrong. And that that is all up to date. Make sure you know what type of ID you need and you have the proper ID, figure out, you know, am I going to vote in person? And if so, where do I have to get? How am I getting there? How am I getting back? Do I want someone with me to assist me? Am I going to vote by mail? If so, what are my options for doing that that'll make it work for me? Definitely get your ballot ahead of time. You can get sample ballots, especially online now, which makes it a lot easier. And research who and what is on your ballot and know what you want to vote for. It just makes the whole process a lot easier. But I think that's really important for 2026 because I know we all—I bet everyone who listens to this is up on the news, right? You know, they kind of know what's going on in the world. And we know that the, for better or worse, well no, there's no better or worse. Unfortunately, the United States Postal Services is in trouble, right? They've talked about being low on operating funds. They've had to consolidate their like processing centers for mail. And so one of the things they let voters know early on this year was that processing times could be delayed. So the day that you drop off your mail isn't necessarily the day it gets postmarked. Apparently that's always been true. Eric: Right.

Michelle:
But they're more worried about it these days. They used to be able to keep on top of it. And now with fewer resources, there's a better chance that could happen. And in a lot of states, your ballot has to be postmarked by a certain date to be counted. And so if you drop it off on that day or even a couple days before and it doesn't get postmarked right away, there's a chance it couldn't be counted. So I think if you make your plan ahead of time, you just I don't think there's any reason to panic. I think you just want to, if you need that ballot and you live somewhere where you have to request it requester early, do your research and mark right away. Return it early, return it early. And if it's an option for you to go into a post office where you are and have them postmarked while you're there, you can absolutely ask for that just to be certain. If that's something that makes folks nervous, which I get it, and I understand and you think, well, maybe I'll vote in person instead, then you want to make sure you've done your research. Where do I have to go? Is there an early voting period? When when can I go? So I think there are just some strains on our resources, which I mean, story of our lives right now, right?

Eric:
That's right, that's right.

Michelle:
The last few years, we started talking about 2020. And that's appropriate because I feel like ever since 2020 it's everything's a struggle, right? And so our resources are strained right now. So you I think it's even more crucial this year to make that plan in advance to know how you want to vote. So you're just you're getting it done early. Don't wait till the last minute with anything.

Eric:
Yeah. No, I appreciate that. And and diving into that, you mentioned ID the importance of having ID, as you also mentioned, many people who are tuning in, are paying attention to what's happening across the country, in DC. The rhetoric, some of the policy around the rhetoric, and voter ID has been a major issue. And, we can get into like the rationale behind it, but can you just talk a little bit about how stricter voter ID laws impact voters with disabilities in particular?

Michelle:
Oh my gosh, you don't know how glad I I'm so glad you asked. Because voter ID, interestingly enough. So there are voter ID laws in the states. They've definitely been increasing, as the year goes, years go by, more and more states require stricter forms of ID, and I think for a lot of voters who have that type of ID in their wallet right now, they're like, what's the big deal? I have this and it's not hard to go get this thing, and I'm just going to show it if they ask me to show it. And so I think for a lot of voters who can do that, I don't think they have any idea that that's not true for a lot of other voters. They just they don't see it. They don't see it. And so they don't understand how that could be the barrier. But it is for a lot of people. Not everyone has, especially if those requirements get stricter and stricter and harder to have the right type of ID and just not everyone has it, I do okay, I have one of my wallet right now. They asked me to show it, I could show it. But I understand that not every voter does. And it's particularly difficult for voters with disabilities because we get we get hit with a bit of a double whammy, actually. One, we're less likely to have that ID we're overrepresented among those people who are less likely to have the correct type of ID, so it's more likely that we have to go get it than other voters. But also we can't guarantee that those processes are going to be accessible. And that's one of the things that can be really tricky about voter ID. For a lot of voters I think they think this is this is easy. Let's, you know, we pass this, we require it. And then we tell voters, "Well not everyone has one." And they say, "Well, everyone should just get one." It's like but elections officials, they can't control that. If elections officials, a law passes and now they have to ask you to show a certain type of ID, they have no control over the places you have to go to get that ID, and whether or not they're accessible. I think we've all heard, you know, horror stories about town hall was built in 1700 or something or whatever, and it's super inaccessible, and it's a historical landmark now, so you can't make them put in an elevator or DMVs. You know, the DMV is the most common place to get that type of ID, disregarding the fact that not everyone lives near a DMV, and there are a lot of places where it could be miles away, and it's not open every day of the week, but we can't even guarantee they're accessible. And a lot of them have those really, I don't know about around you, around me, they have these really high counter tops, and they have to take your photo with that digital camera, and it's bolted to the countertop, and they can't necessarily take your picture if you're, like, seated in a wheelchair because you're too far down there and they can't get you in the shot, right. So if elections officials can't guarantee that it's accessible for you to get the correct type of ID, I think it becomes really difficult to say. "You have to have one to be able to vote." We have to, at the bare minimum, fix all of that before we say, oh, in the next election, everybody's got to have this thing that could be really hard for some folks to get. And it comes with a cost. And people with disabilities we know in this country are disproportionately unemployed and underemployed compared to non-disabled folks. So the cost of getting the ID or getting whatever documents you might need to get it, like a birth certificate or whatever it might be. Now that we have real IDs and things like that can really be a burden for some folks where they aren't for others. So we have to fix all that stuff, I think before we can say, this is a thing you need to have when you go to vote, and a lot of folks say, well, this is a really outdated reference. Forgive me, I can't think of a more updated one. I'm really showing my age on this episode today, but I've had you know, election officials say to me, well, "I show, I have to show my ID when I go to blockbuster." Eric I'm sorry. [Eric laughs] That's like so.

Eric:
That is that is a throwback.

Michelle:
They don't even exist anymore. But that was you know, that's where like the logic is.

Eric:
Right, right.

Michelle:
Well okay, but if I can't go to blockbuster, my rights aren't being violated, right? But if I don't get to cast my ballot, that's a much bigger deal.

Eric:
Exactly.

Michelle:
So we we have to treat it that that much more seriously. We have to make sure we have everything in place before, I think before we increase those kinds of requirements. And I don't think everyone realizes how much more complicated it can be for people with disabilities. Just a lot of things are not accessible to us, unfortunately.

Eric:
Right, and as you know, a lot of people will connect, in many ways for the right reasons, but in some ways kind of inappropriately will connect only voter ID to immigration. And, and, and having folks who are undocumented, restricting their abilities to engage, but it's helpful to kind of lay out that it doesn't just impact folks who are undocumented, folks who are immigrants, it impacts disabled folks. It impacts older voters. It impacts a whole bunch of folks who who, want to and, and, and have the right to, to vote.

Michelle:
Much more than we realize. Way more than, I mentioned real IDs. Real IDs only indicate whether or not you're a citizen in like 6 or 7 states. Out of all the states, right? That's not very many. So when we look at bills we're seeing proposed where you're required to prove your citizenship.

Eric:
Right.

Michelle:
That's even more, I'm glad that came up because there are some bills that talk about that. And they're being called there's like the SAVE Act in Congress and it's and people are calling it a photo ID bill it's not just a photo ID bill, though. It's documentary proof of citizenship, which is really, really different and much harder to prove. So like your real ID is probably not going to cut it the way it would for photo ID it really comes down pretty much to a passport or birth certificate. Only about half of Americans even have a passport.

Eric:
Right.

Michelle:
Which is probably like an all time high. I remember when it was way lower than that, right? So that automatically these are people who were born in the United States, were citizens of the United States who don't have that. And not everyone has a birth certificate. I think sometimes we get the same logic around that, too, where people are like, "Oh, my birth certificates in a filing cabinet in the next room.' And I'm like, "That's great. but that's not true for everyone." And not everyone even, not even just the usual barriers. Like, where do you have to go? Is it accessible? Does it cost money? They don't necessarily exist for everyone, right? For people who are born at home, particularly on Native American reservations, there wasn't one necessarily created, back before we kept digital records of everything, you know, so if like City Hall burnt down in 1995 before we had digital records. That stuff is gone. You can't necessarily replace it and get it back. It's complicated for people who are born overseas, someone who's changed their name, which really common for like, women, to change their names. And so that birth certificate name no longer matches. Now you need extra documentation. People who experienced adoption, there are people for whom it's extremely difficult, or it just may not even exist. So that documentary proof of citizenship stuff actually impacts, probably more citizens than anyone else who don't have what they need. And it could be very difficult to impossible to get it. So it's these are just things that they have really big consequences. And elections are really delicate. And so when we want to make really big changes in that way, we can't just do it. We had to make sure we have all the processes in place before we make those changes. Otherwise, a lot of voters can be disenfranchised in the process.

Eric:
Wow, wow. Oh, man.

Michelle:
I'm sorry. That was a bummer.

Eric:
No, no. It's helpful. It's so helpful to know. And I think, tying it to California, you know, one of the things that, you know, people all around the country and even in some cases, some Californians feel like California dark blue, the, the hub of, liberation and freedom, like, and, you know, progressivism and all the exciting, great, wonderful things that we all hope to, to have as, as a country and especially when it comes to voting, we want all the access, etc., etc..Well, it is likely, that there will be a voter ID measure, on the California ballot at some point relatively soon, possibly, you know, coming up this year, what should voters with disabilities and advocates be thinking about based on what you've seen in other states talk that you've seen around the country?

Michelle:
I think it's really important for people with disabilities to make sure that every everyone understands the consequence of what we're talking about, right? That this isn't super simple and that this is if this is something you really feel like we need to make our elections work, we have to make sure we do our ground work first, right? We have to make sure everyone's going to be able to get this I.D.. And it's something if there are things you can't do legally, right? You can't, there can't be a fee if you're going to require it to vote. That is in the Constitution at this point. That is not something we can change, right? So it has to be done very carefully. But I do think that voters with disabilities have a really important role to play here in making sure people understand the barriers that we face when we go to vote. It's this really common thing that, I was going to say, humans do. I don't know if everyone does it, but Americans definitely do. Where if it's easy for us, we think it's easy for everyone, right? So for someone who's like, I'm registered in my polling place right down the street and it takes me ten minutes to vote, it's really hard to conceive that it's very, very different for some other people. And so for people with disabilities, it's so important that we it's a little unfair that burdens on us. But it is important that we get out there and we tell our stories. We make sure people understand if we make changes to how we run our elections or what voters are required to do, this is what the consequences of that are going to be for people with disabilities. Unless we fix some of these other issues first. And I think we should have some real conversations about when we talk about things like ID laws and proof of citizenship laws. Like, to what extent can we accomplish some of this without putting the burden on the voter as well, right? Like, well, how much can the state verify on their end, without having to burden the voter with that? Because we don't want it to make it harder for people to vote. So I think there are some really important conversations that should happen if that's coming. And I think it's very likely, even for folks who are, Eric, that's like the most California thing I ever heard you say to that was so. But I get it. I live right outside DC and I work in DC, and so we're like that all the time too. I've never felt more East Coast listening to you talk like that too, which is hilarious because I grew up in New York and I live around DC, so we're just like so different, but so the same at the same time.

Eric:
Right.

Michelle:
And we are, yeah. We're always like, look at us and our freedom and our democracy and we're amazing all the time. But I think there are some important conversations that we need to have about how critical that is and what we do to protect it. And it's really important to balance the need to make sure our elections are secure with making sure that they're accessible. They have the same goal right? The point of these, like election security measures, to make sure that our elections are fair and they're accurate and they represent the will of the people. But the other way to make sure that elections are accurate and fair and represented the will of the people is to let the people vote. If we disenfranchise the voters, we cannot say that these are results are accurate and they represent the will of the people who were turned away on Election Day, right? Because they couldn't get the correct type of ID. So we have we have to be able to do both and we have to be able to do them well. And there are some conversations that need to happen there. And I know there's some incredible disabled advocates in California who I know can really get out there and make sure if we want to make this change, we have to know this, what the consequences are. And maybe we need to think this through some of these other things first.

Eric:
That's right, that's right.

Michelle:
Maybe the process is accessible. You know as well as I do like how many things do you see a day that are inaccessible to people with disabilities?

Eric:
Too many to count.

Michelle:
Okay. [Eric and Michelle giggle] So the more things we ask the voters to access, the more hoops they have to jump through. The more things we ask the voters to access, the more hoops they have to jump through. The more people with disabilities show up who are like, I can't jump through that hoop. That's just not even a thing. Like, did you have something I could maybe roll over instead of having to, like, hurl myself through this hoop or what? Like, have we thought about this? And, we haven't necessarily. We need people with disabilities to show up and say, have you thought about this? Sometimes I tell people 90% of my job is just showing up places and yelling, "That's not accessible." And that's what it feels like working in elections world, is that there's a lot of thought from so many angles going into how we run elections, there's a lot of thought put into how we run elections. It's definitely not, frivolous. There are a lot of amazing people who do this work who really care, and they want voters to be able to vote, but they don't know us better than we do. And so we we have to show up in those spaces and say, have you thought about this and this and that and the other thing that aren't going to be accessible for people with disabilities?

Eric:
Yeah and, we're going to get to a closing here soon. But one of the things that kind of came to mind, I'm sure that there are a lot of folks who aren't in our space, who aren't in the disability advocacy space, who probably think you guys have the ADA you guys have, like you got there are like voting rights laws. Like what, what could the problems be? And I know you've mentioned obviously several in terms of structural barriers, in terms of other, other barriers, you know, technology barriers. Is there any barrier that kind of comes to mind, maybe that's a little unique that like, folks might not even might not even be thinking about or something that kind of came out of nowhere where you're just like, I had no idea that this was going to be a problem.

Michelle:
That's such a good question. It's, when you talk about the ADA, too, I have to laugh because the ADA is, is like, an adult at this point, right? How old is the ADA now? Like,

Eric:
35.

Michelle:
Right. Fully grown. Okay. The ADA has like a mortgage and a 401K at this point. And and it's an incredible piece of legislation. I mean, so much thought and care went into how it was written. And so it's not to knock the ADA all that it hasn't solved all of our problems, but it's, it has to be enforced. And that's not always easy to do, right? I mean, it relies on what individuals being able to, like, bring lawsuits every time they see a thing that's a violation, which is really difficult for the average person to do or DOJ to just, I don't know, have the resources to be everywhere all the time and do that for us. I mean, which is just not, not, not even possible for the Department of Justice, right? It's just it's just big. It solves really big problems. And we've kind of like inched forward in terms of accessibility because of the ADA, really like laying out very clear guidelines on what it means to be accessible. And we, almost said move the ball forward again, I don't I don't know I don't know why I have football on the brain, I don't know. It's helped us to do that right. We started out with incredibly inaccessible polling places. It's wild if you think about what we had before we had accessible voting equipment. And like what people with disabilities were doing. Did you ever vote on, like, a punch card machine? That's, it's wild.

Eric:
Yes, yes.

Michelle:
It's wild to think about in retrospect where you'd have to have the card, you had to like line it up, right?

Eric:
Right, right.

Michelle:
Like you might not be punching the right person. And then you just have like a glorified thumbtack and you have to punch out like a little hole. The Chad, you had to punch the Chad out a little hole, remember, like the Hanging Chads and the Pregnant Chads. We used to rely on this.

Eric:
Yeah.

Michelle:
For something as important as our democracy. And that's really wild to me that for a really long time, it just didn't have to be accessible to people with disabilities. And so we've come a really long way. I think we just have further to go. I don't know if there's any like barriers to me that I'm like, whoa, that's out there. I think it's more that I think the average person thinks of accessibility. Yeah, really, really simple way. Stuff we can all understand. We talked about the curb cuts. You get that. Like you can't necessarily get your wheelchair up a curb cut or up a flight of stairs. So we got to have a ramp or an elevator, right? People can conceive of that. I don't know if they always understand some of the other barriers that we see when, really well-trained poll workers are incredibly powerful because they know the rights of people with disabilities and they know what accommodations are entitled to, and they respect it. But sometimes you have people with disabilities who show up to polling places, and they don't know how to communicate with someone who has a disability, or they question whether or not they should be eligible. And it's like they're registered and they're in that poll book, so give them the ballot, right? I think voting by mail has been a really interesting one. A lot of times we would hear like, well, the polling places, we can't get them all accessible, but you can vote by mail. And it's like not everyone can hold a piece of paper and a pen and put them together and fill out that paper ballot, right? And so voting by mail is incredible and it's powerful, but it's not a panacea that fixes all our accessibility woes. Unless we make it work. That might be maybe the wild thing I found out about. Okay, this is not a barrier, but it's a wild thing I found out about. It was that, astronauts at the International Space Station are able to, don't NASA don't call in or something like, I don't know how often this is done okay? I read an article about it. You know, don't quote me, but they have apparently voted electronically, like received it and returned it electronically because they're at the International Space Station. Like, what else do we expect them to do?

Eric:
Right, right.

Michelle:
If we can make it work for astronauts in space.

Eric:
Just saying.

Michelle:
We can make it work for people with disabilities.

Eric:
That's right, that's right. [Eric and Michelle laugh] No, absolutely right. Absolutely.

Michelle:
I think about that one a lot. [Michelle laughs] Like if you can vote from the International Space Station, we can fix it for like the blind person down the street.

Eric:
Right. There's no excuse. There's no excuse.

Michelle:
We could definitely do it.

Eric:
Yeah. Well, what keeps you hopeful when it comes to voting access? I mean, you're in the thick of it. You're in it every day. And I know that you see some great things. You see some frustrating things. And then there's the SAVE Act or there's some other like big, you know, bill that comes through that you're just like, what what is what is happening? So how do you how do you stay hopeful, motivated, optimistic with all of that happening?

Michelle:
These big questions, it's the voters, really. I get to also do some direct work with voters because we're very engaged with Election Protection. Do you know them? That's like the 886-OUR-VOTE number that you call.

Eric:
Yeah.

Michelle:
if you are having trouble voting? We actually are the lead organization for the Disability Access Hub through Election Protection. So if you call that number, also there's also hotlines in other languages you can call, you can text, you can webchat. There's like I think you can WhatsApp now, there's a million ways to contact Election Protection. Ideally if you do, like in California, it's going to go to Disability Rights California. If it's really, really bad. It might actually literally end up with me. You don't want to end up on the phone with me. That means things are going really, really wrong, right? [Michelle and Eric laugh] But it could happen because we run that hub to be there to support, voters with disabilities, actually, during early voting and on Election Day, when they're going to vote. And so I've gotten to talk with voters who are incredible, right? I've gotten to talk with, you don't forget, when you talk to a pregnant woman who was in labor and on the way to the hospital, but she hadn't voted yet. She wanted to and she want to know how she could vote because she was going to make it happen. I cannot imagine being on the verge of birthing a tiny human and thinking about, I haven't voted today like, that woman is my hero. I hope she hears this wherever she is, cause you're incredible. Or you know, someone who votes for the first time. And it's a really powerful and moving experience for them. You just anyone you've been able to help vote in, they get to cast their ballot when they thought they weren't. That really sticks with you, I think 2025 actually, surprisingly, because it's not a big election year, is really the thing that I think about still a lot today that really kind of keeps me hopeful and keeps me moving because the voter turnout, even though not everyone was going to vote, was big. And so the voters, they were ready, they were ready. They're ready. And they want to vote. They want to have their voices heard. So we need to be there for them for sure. I mean, working with election protection, we were getting calls from voters who were like "My polling places isn't open, " and we're like, "They're not voting in your state today." But they were ready, okay? They were so ready. They were trying to go vote because they knew other people were going to vote. Like, yes, I love this. [Michelle laughs] I love this about voters. That's amazing. I want to say it was the secretary of state. I think it might have been Kentucky had like put a message out on social media that was like, we are not voting today. Like, please stop calling our office. [Eric laughs] Like, no, you cannot vote in like, the Virginia governor's race or the New York City mayoral race like you have to wait till next year to vote because people were like calling in and they were like, why aren't the polling places open?

Eric:
Oh my gosh.

Michelle:
So the fact that voters are that ready to go that early in the game? Definitely makes me feel really hopeful. That is what that all of us being involved like that is what makes democracy work.

Eric:
I love it, I love it.

Michelle:
Makes my job worth it, so.

Eric:
That's right, that's right. Well, we have two final questions. First, is there a piece of pop culture, a book, a show, a movie, anything that you're kind of into right now or that you think kind of fits the times that that you want to share, with folks who are who are tuning in?

Michelle:
I don't know why this is the first thing that came to mind. It might just be because I randomly mentioned it earlier, but it might also be because in my family, we are obsessed with Bad Bunny's Super Bowl Halftime Show. Okay, this is like there are still regular viewings in our family of the Halftime Show. Including my amazing niece, Gracie whose only a year and a half, who loves Bad Bunny.

Eric:
I love it.

Michelle:
When he comes on. She dances and she says, "Ay ay," like him. And she stares at the screen. She, like many of us, gets lost in Benito's eyes. [Eric and Michelle laugh] But we love it. We it was fun. It was an amazing performance. And that we are all in America together. We are all America. That's the message, right? That's the message.

Eric:
I love it.

Michelle:
That's that's the one I don't know why that was the first thing, but I'm going with it, okay.

Eric:
Perfect. I think your family is one of many who I feel like feel the exact same way about Bad Bunny and about that performance, it was epic.

Michelle:
I saw someone online who said, Bad Bunny really said, "You don't all understand Spanish, but you all understand eye contact."

Eric:
Exactly.

Michelle:
And I felt that that was accurate. I don't know word of Spanish, so.

Eric:
Exactly right. [Eric and Michelle laugh] That's exactly right. Okay, last question. What is your game plan for the rest of the year? It's obviously a midterm election year. You're going to be super busy. Is there anything in particular that you're going to really focus in on as your game plan for the rest of the year?

Michelle:
Is holding on for dear life a bad answer?

Eric:
No. [Michelle laughs]

Michelle:
It feels like that, doesn't it?

Eric:
Absolutely true. You know, I feel like and it's funny because our CEO, Andy has mentioned this a few times. It's almost like we're in the ocean and we're constantly, like, seeing waves coming and like ducking under to, like, hold our breath for a little while, for the wave to go by and then come up. And we're just, like, constantly doing that over and over again.

Michelle:
Yes. And Andy's been in the game a long time.

Eric:
Yeah. So he's he's seen it.

Michelle:
He knows. He's seen it. Yeah I mean there's a little bit of that. But you know what, every election feels like that once you get too far into it. It's just like at this point we're just like taking things as they come. We're doing everything we can for the voters to make it happen. So it is a little bit of hanging on for dear life and then breathing very deeply the day after election day.

Eric:
That's right.

Michelle:
That might be a terrible answer, but I promise you, I'm good at this. Okay, guys, I. [Michelle laughs]

Eric:
I love it. Nah, we we truly do appreciate you joining and dropping knowledge for for so many folks and all the work that you're doing in DC and around the country, it's, it's much appreciated by so many of us.

Michelle:
I loved coming on. Thank you for letting me come on and just blab to you about stuff that I'm really passionate about and love doing, I love it. I hope it's really helpful for folks. And they should definitely, if you're in California and you have questions about voting or need assistance, call Disability Rights California for sure. If you're not going to shout it out, Eric, I'm going to shout it out. They should absolutely call Disability Rights California. There's an amazing team of folks there that are ready to help you and make sure you're able to get your ballot cast.

Eric:
That's right, that's right. Well, thank you so much, Michelle. We loved having you. Thank you so much.

[Triumphant music fades in]

Voiceover:
This has been The Game Plan, a production of Disability Rights California. Please like, subscribe and comment on the platform of your choice. See you next time.