Video Transcript

Voiceover (00:00):

The game plan is a production of Disability Rights California. A space to strategize, organize, and posterize for the future of the disability rights movement. For more information on our work, please visit us at disabilityrightsca.org.

Eric Harris (00:20):

So, welcome everyone to our first-ever podcast episode of The Game Plan with Disability Rights California. My name is Eric Harris. I use he/him pronouns. I am the Associate Executive Director of Disability Rights California's external affairs unit. I have with me today an amazing advocate, a wonderful leader and an even more wonderful human being, Vanessa Ramos, and she is in our Investigation’s Unit. Welcome, Vanessa.

Vanessa Ramos (00:57):

Thank you, Eric. Thank you so much. And hi to all of our viewers. I'm so thrilled to be here. you know, it's the first podcast and it, you know, it's like long overdue for so many reasons, but I'm just so thrilled to be here. I love your fresh headphones. I just got to say it. I can't get over them.

Eric Harris (1:18):

We had to, the first episode, we had to do it right. You know, we had to look good, feel good, sound good, all the things. Hopefully even though there's a lot of challenging things happening right now, we're going to talk about some of it, this is exciting. Hopefully people enjoy it. We welcome feedback and, we'll keep getting better as, as we move along. But, let's go ahead and, and get going here.

Eric Harris (1:49):

So, Vanessa, you and I go back a little bit now. It all started unfortunately, I guess because of Care Court. And we're going to talk a little bit about Care Court and kind of what DRC was doing at the time initially when Care Court was announced when we started with advocacy meetings and coming together. But do you remember that like when what that was like when we were having those big meetings? And can you talk a little bit about it?

Vanessa Ramos (2:28):

Sure. Sure thing. Yeah. I mean, what an awful time, right? Like what a scary time. What a confusing time. You know, I remember, Eric, just feeling at a loss because I intuitively knew like my body told me like there's things that are happening that are happening fast and I don't know that I'm fully understanding and and coming from the county mental health system and county public health system, I'm like, wait a minute, if I'm not understanding the intricacies of this in this meaning, you know the Care Act, that I know for sure people outside of government aren't understanding and I just really remember feeling like we got to do something and I started looking around at like who's down to get down and sure enough you know you and Andy were just ready to grind it out and I'm like yeah like that's what you know that's the team I want to be a part of you know because of the protection and advocacy portion and also because mental health conditions can be disabling right, a lack of access to health care can be disabling right we know that poverty is disabling, we know that certain demographics of people find themselves receiving care appropriate care while other groups may receive care. It may be inhumane but I guess it is care you know and you know your assessment and your understanding of these issues you know just gave me a lot of hope. It just gave me, you know, and I'm not saying this cuz we're on the podcast, but, you know, I mean, it I felt very inspired by what was possible even if we weren't to win the Care Act fight. I knew that we were willing and ready to be on the right side of history.

Eric Harris (5:02):

Yeah. No, that's that's a wonderful point and I think you know when Care Court the policy was brought forward I was relatively new in my role at the time as the director of public policy. I had done disability policy work in Northern California, in Sacramento, in the Bay Area, and in Washington DC. We had a brand new pretty brand new Executive Director at the time, Andy, who has had decades of policy experience and advocacy. And we both kind of looked at each other like this is really bad. And to be in a state like California, we always are talking about promoting civil liberties. Everybody has freedoms, make your own decisions, make your own choices. The disability rights movement started out here in the Bay Area. All of that.

And we're looking at this policy and we're just like, this seems really bad, right? And when we started, we would have meetings and kind of bring people together and do Zooms because at the time it was like deep in the pandemic. And I remember advocates like yourself were like, "All right, like we hear that DRC is doing these meetings and like this is helpful, but like this is we got to get after it because like this is scary and people with mental health diagnoses, unhoused people, people of color, we're going to be jacked up by this stuff. And we need an advocacy organization to be leading the way and bringing up, you know, other leaders and other organizations to help them lead the way on this fight. And I know at the time, we all recognized that the governor and other people were heavily involved and it was like, are we really down? Are we really gonna do this? Because we know there's going to be push back. It's going to be hard. But we ultimately knew it was the right thing to do. So, that was what made it easy to work with you and other colleagues on this issue cuz we were like, we know that that these are people that are really going to be down for this. So, it was a a great beginning to our collaboration and it's only grown from there.

Vanessa Ramos (7:37):

Yeah. No, thanks Eric. You know, as you were talking, one of the things that comes to mind and came to mind is the lack of civics education and knowledge that people have. I've noticed that, you know, somewhere along the line, we started pulling civics out of the classrooms and people's understandings of, you know, what an elected's responsibilities are and how, you know, we the people like they work for us and they are our representatives. How little by little we pulled civics out of the classrooms and then little by little, you know, we have these relationships with electeds where they're no longer like happy to see us, right? Like they're almost like celebrity like in California, you know, and I don't know where, you know, some of our viewers are from, but let me just tell y'all that you know, here in the Golden State, you know, shout out California, we're we're kind of ruthless when it comes to state government, right? Like you know, one would think that we're speaking to celebs.

It's very hard for people to meet with their representative. It's very difficult for people to actually trust that their representative is going to do what's right for them because we we understand that that the state reps, the legislators, they're faced with so many bills that they have to read and and there's so much technical information that I highly doubt that all the the staffers have the bandwidth to be able to really understand what implementation of some of these bills are.

And that's where I feel extremely proud, Eric, that you know, I know for you, I remember early on, you know, you told me, you know, Vanessa, like really my dream, my wish, my hope, my fight is that legislative advocacy is born out of the disability community. meaning you want for there to be, you know, bills that are developed and created in conjunction with the legislators, with the family members, you know, and that solutions come from the community because currently it's just it's backwards. So, you know, orgs like DRC are constantly fighting against this or fighting against that. And it's and it's like, you know, nobody wants to be, you know, pardon the phrase a “Debbie Downer,” but we understand that the soil is is currently bad. The soil is not based in power. It's not based in solution, right? It's been corrupted and co-opted by lobbyists and special interest groups, you know, and and this group thinking just about this piece, but not talking about this other piece.

And we need that collective experience that also includes, you know, the family members perspective, you know, and shout out to the pets and, you know, the “framily,” the friends who are family, right? Because as a woman living with disabilities, I know that that I am who I am because of the people that love me, because of of of my faith, you know, because it's so it's, you know, disabled people come with a network of support. And unfortunately, some of these fights have created a split, a tear, a rupture between understanding what is best for the individual, what is best for their network of support and how it's actually very aligned, right? But there's been a lot of wins in having us fighting against each other and not spending time in developing builds collectively, you know, which is what I think the future holds, Eric. And I'm just so proud you know to serve with you to build power. I'm so grateful that Carolina Valle, right, is now with us and that DRC is investing in power building and and and we're, you know, what we didn't know then we know today. You know.

Eric Harris (12:23):

Yeah, no, that's exactly right. And I think, you know, you and I both have disabilities we're proud to talk about it. It's disability pride month, July. And we acknowledge it's part of our identity. It's part of who we are. If if you want to know our whole selves in terms of Vanessa and Eric, you got to know that we have disabilities. We live with disabilities. Our families, a lot of our friends, like this is our community, right? And I think that when it came to Care Court, one of the things that I felt and I know our organization DRC felt was really important as you said is that the community, the disability community is leading the conversation and that there shouldn't be any policies in place that are going to directly impact people, directly impact a community without input directly from that community.

So I just, and I know you mentioned it a little bit, but can you just mention some about your experience, your direct lived experience, because I think you know “lived experience” is kind of put out there and different folks use it in different ways and I think for this specific issue for Care Court how your lived experience is directly impacted potentially by Care Court and some of these other policies. But if you could just talk a little bit about your experience, your lived experience with your disability, your lived experience with just navigating these systems.

Vanessa Ramos (14:00):

Yeah, sure. And you know, I mean, I, you know, my origin story is one of rape, right? Where, you know, my my parent, my mother, you know, who recently just had top surgery. So, it's like mom, dad, you know, like my my queer parent came out you know, young and and was not accepted, you know, understandably so. You know, it was a big shock for my Central American grandmother, you know, who is, you know, has her beliefs, which, you know, I you know, I I'm a I'm a woman of faith. So, you know, I'm a part of the faith community. And I say that not proudly because I don't it doesn't need all that. But I just say it because I think we live in like a cancel culture that we're slowly moving out of, right? And I'm just here to talk about the real, which is my mom came out. My mom ran away from home, right? She was in Hollywood with her girlfriend. Ex, you know, she is a sexual trauma survivor. She was raped. She was pregnant with me. Amazingly, decided to move forward with the pregnancy.

I'm born, but the environment was not set up for my mom to be able to thrive, right? So, my mom was not able to just go apply for a job because she looks very masculine, right? So employment opportunities weren't necessarily available for my mom. So my mom sold coke, you know, my mom sold coke at a drag bar that still exists to this day. You know, I was raised in the queer community and in the evangelical Pentecostal community. So, half the week, you know, was one way and the other half was another way. And I'm so grateful for the for the way that I've learned to love and to accept and to belong and to be you know and and navigating my own life in those transitions, you know, I naturally needed extra support. I had a little bit of problems with my speech. I was in speech therapy as a kid, you know.

Today I understand that I'm neurodeivergent. Today I understand that, you know, mental health is a part of the disability you know, identity umbrella. I didn't know that back then, right? So, growing up, I didn't know that that there was a reason why, you know, I behaved a little differently than the other kids. Like today I think it's one of my superpowers and I also know it's there's certain medical care that I access on a weekly basis but but now I'm more of a you know a better resource person growing up navigating life with a lot of complexity being a sexual trauma survivor myself I didn't have a place to go access support. You know, street drugs are oftentimes more available than a prescription drug is, right? So, to get a prescription medication, you have to have insurance, you have to go see a doctor, the doctor writes up the prescription, you have to go to the pharmacy, you have to - Right. So, there's this long drawn out process. I didn't have access to a lot of those services.

And for me, I ended up, you know, falling in love with drugs and I ended up on the street. I ended up incarcerated. You know, I was, you know, I'm somebody who used throughout my first pregnancy. I'm so grateful for my child's life. My child is now 24 years old. But 24 years ago, I found myself in a solitary confinement cell when Los Angeles Twin Towers used to hold women and I found myself in the basement of Twin Towers. Still lactating, no access to health care. You know, no one's doing medical, you know, examination questions, right? They're booking you in. They're putting you through this this this harsh system. And I understand that I had broken laws. Like, I totally get that. But people weren't asking why, nor did they care.

And Eric, let me tell you that because of good policy, I was able to access drug diversion. I was able to access drug treatment, you know, voluntary drug treatment. I was able to have my first experiences at working with the therapist, at, you know, being a little better socialized, at, you know better engaging my family. And although I relapsed several times, dude, I needed all those touches, those service touches because over, you know, it took a little while, but I finally got to a point, Eric, where not only, you know, was I able to have my second child who's now 16, but I've been able to go back for that little girl that was scared, that was confused, that was inspired, you know, and that was, that felt loved and unloved at the same time. And I could now go back for her and heal from that point, you know, but it took a lot for me to get to where where I am today, which is why, you know, I can't overlook you know, harm.

Eric Harris (20:02):

That's right.

Vanessa Ramos (20:03):

Against our communities.

Eric Harris (20:04):

That's right. And I think it's so crucial and I'm very fortunate that Disability Rights California and you recognize the connection directly to the disability movement, because it is so important that our movement include everybody with disabilities. We can't pick and choose, right? We can't be like, "All right, we want these folks a part of our movement, but not the people who are unhoused or part of the criminal legal system or etc., part of the foster care system cuz like they're too complicated or whatever." Like, we can't be like that.

And and I want to, you know, move back to Care Court and I really appreciate you opening up about your journey because I've known your journey for a long time. I've gotten to know you super well and I and I'm glad that our listeners are getting a chance to to know you better as well. So Care Court as it went through the process and you know I've been involved in policy for 10-plus years. Andy has been involved, our executive director now CEO has been involved in policy for over 30 years. And we were just blown away that Care Court was just moving forward, moving forward, moving forward without any resistance in terms of “NO” votes. People who were willing to to push back in the legislature. A bunch of organizations like Disability Rights California, the ACLU, LACAN, different mental health peer organizations, racial justice organizations, the NAACP, a whole bunch of organizations, came out and opposed the bill. But as we know, unfortunately, similar to a lot of the the bills in this space in California, it passed nearly unanimously.

And I just want to get your thoughts as somebody who is not a policy person. Like that is not your chosen path in terms of like the advocacy that you do. You recognize that policy is a part of this and we got to know what's going on in the legislature or city hall or whatever. But as an outsider, so to speak, what were your thoughts when you saw every single vote just yes, yes, yes, over and over and we're sitting there as advocates and you in particular as somebody with direct lived experience on these issues and you were like, "No, this is going to hurt me. This is going to harm our community. Our community is going to be in a bad spot." And people were just like, "Yeah, yeah, whatever. Got it. Yes." Or they might have said, "Oh, we hear you. We have concerns, too." Yes. And you're just like, "Do people not know how bad this stuff is?" So, if you could talk about just how that process was, you know, what it was like kind of experiencing that.

Vanessa Ramos (23:08):

Yeah. No, for sure, Eric. You know, the process was alarming. You know, I could I was very, well, and let me also mention that I'm also a family member. So, during the Care Court fight you know I've been very influenced by the mental health and the substance youth peer recovery community networks. You know my wonderful mentor Tina Wooten who passed a few years back you know taught me that there's no empowerment without employment and I knew that to be true. So, I knew that moving people out of the disability poverty trap, I knew that was a thing, right? I knew that that disabled people that are receiving benefits you know, often times are discouraged to work because they could lose all of their health care benefits, right? So, if you make a certain amount over, you're going to just be like done, right?

Like, so I knew of these types of fights, but really I by being a part of…and understand that peer support is very powerful. Is my connection a little fuzzy?

Eric Harris (24:38):

It was it was it like pause for just a second, but I I think you're okay. Maybe if you go back and just say what you just said again.

Vanessa Ramos (24:46):

Sure. Sure. Okay. So will you ask me again? I'm so sorry.

Eric Harris (24:51):

Yeah. So so basically the the legislative process went through almost without a hitch that the legislature you know we would meet with them and they were just like anyways. So yeah, or they might say, "Oh man, we hear you. That's really terrible and like we hear your concerns." But then they'd still go and vote yes on it without basically without a hitch except for two people. Assembly Member Karla and Assembly Member Stone were the only two no votes, but everybody else essentially voted for this. So just give me your thoughts on the process.

Vanessa Ramos (25:29):

Yeah. Yeah. So on regarding the process, you know, I was shocked that these legislators weren't stopping to think about why are so many advocacy orgs so opposed to this, right? I was shocked that they didn't want to engage us. Like, it was almost as it felt like they were told not to engage with. It felt like oh this is some something that people don't want to touch.

And what that started to open me up to was wait a minute this is a rogue process. What this is? It's no longer like what I thought when I was a little girl going to Sacramento, right, for my high for my you know what I mean in the first grade, right? I'm like when I toured the Capitol back in the day, back in the 80s, you know, what I thought the process was and what the process is now is completely different. I thought that if there was a, you know, controversy that the that your electeds would want to talk to you to find out what your concerns were. So, I was really naively shocked that there are lobbyists that are like involved in all of this, that there are legislators that are actually thinking about their other bills. Like I had no idea like oh if the governor wants to eventually be president and they have like a mental health crisis you know to speak to they have to come up with solution and I didn't realize that that that other electeds want to appease a governor so that they can then, you know, move forward politically or that some of their interests right become catered to I had no idea. I was you know what I mean? I was shocked.

Eric Harris (27:45):

And it's interesting right, because we get told all the time like we want to hear from the community right? Like we want the community to feel like this is an open door and at the end of the day I think you and I probably talked multiple times and we're like these elected officials work for, us like we're the ones who are voting for them, we're the constituents.

So like over the years and I think Care Court was the first and that was our origin story in terms of our relationship and kind of how you deeply got connected to DRC. Now we've seen the expansion of the definition of gravely disabled. We've seen expansions as it relates to forced treatment, forced mental health care. We've seen Proposition 1 which was up for the voters to fund a lot of these systems and kind of programs nearly lose in in our favor. It would have been wonderful. But like what do you think Disability Rights California's role should be in some of this? Some would say your guys' role as a advocacy organization is to provide the legal analysis and basically that's it. Some would say no you guys are more important than just providing legal analysis. Like yeah you want to provide legal and policy analysis but you also have a CEO with lived experience with bipolar disorder. You have other advocates that have lived experience. you have a PAIMI advisory committee which is essentially our piece of our board of directors that are are focused on mental health advocacy for folks with mental health disabilities in the state. You guys are bigger than just like provide some analysis.

So what would you say and I know that you mentioned our power building and kind of what we're trying to do in that space. We have a communications team as folks are witnessing here like what would you say in terms of Disability Rights California's role in this space as as as we engage on on some of these fights?

Vanessa Ramos (30:04):

You know Eric thank you so much for that question you know I really believe that the virtual town halls that DRC is hosting, are hosting, like you know I think that's a really great way for us to have healthy debate you know? I look forward, you know, to having, you know, a bill come up, right? And and for us to have open virtual dialogue with people that support the bill, people that oppose the bill, and for us to have healthy real life on camera debate, respectful debate, but pointed debate, right?

And and and I really am very excited to include not only family members but a person's ecosystem of support because for me as a family member as I was you know saying and I'm not sure if it if we caught it, because I know I was having camera trouble but during the Court Court fight you know I experienced a chilling moment when I learned that my little brother who is my cousin by blood, you know, was behaving erratically and I was shocked to see him on, you know, the the 7:00 p.m. news and I was shocked to learn that my grandma's house was teargassed because he had a mental health crisis that led to some very serious incidences to say the least.

And as a family member, I had to ask myself, you know, very honest questions like would Care Court have helped him? If Care Court was was enacted? Would that have helped him? Because although I received voluntary care, I knew that for him he was unwilling and he was not he he could not see that he needed help per his own admission. So if we would say, "Hey, you know, like you're eating out of the trash. Like you you need to like change your shoes. Like you're you're walking around as if you're unhoused. You're not unhoused. Like why are you under the bridge?" Right? We would find him in different places. He wasn't connecting those dots any longer. Right? So, he once upon a time was working, was driving, you know, was in relationships, loved music, was a your average 20-year-old kid. And then all of a sudden things changed. He stopped working. He stopped driving. He stopped showering. He started setting pieces of paper on fire at the at the back of my grandma's house. He started to have these symptoms. And whenever I would reach out and I would tell him, "Hey, you know, I'm clean now. You know, I'm going to therapy, right?" He would say, "That's you. Like, there's nothing wrong with me."

So there was something going on with him where he wasn't connecting with the reality that he may need support, right? So, so right in the middle of the Care Court fight, I started to see all this and I was forced to look at things differently. And Eric, let me just tell you that unfortunately Care Court on paper and by the rhetoric that was being shared by the governor and and and you know, Susan Eggman and Umberg and all these people and the big city mayors, it sounded like Care Court was going to help. It sounded that way.

But because I was working at DRC, because I had access to the bills, because I had access to communities, I was like, "Wow, people like me, like family members like me think that Care Court is going to help my family member because I'm going by what these people are saying." But when we started looking at the details in the bill, we're like, "Wait a minute, it's actually not going to do a lot of what people think it's going to do." And because we were in the middle of the fight, we couldn't really start talking to the family members or to the groups that were in support of Care Court. Like, that felt wrong to me. I felt like I I I just needed a moment.

Eric Harris (34:54):

Yeah. Yeah. Right. and and and and I and I know that, you know, one of the things you and I talked about is how can we make sure that Disability Rights California can be a resource, not just, you know, an outward facing advocacy organization, but to your point, because you had access to the information at Disability Rights California, you had access to the lawyers, you had access to folks who are doing this advocacy and can get into what the bill might do and this and that.

Cuz I think what you and I have spoken about a number of times is whether it's you know mental health peers whether it's formerly or currently unhoused folks whether it's people who've been involved in any of these systems including the criminal legal system whether it's parents family members almost all of us want the exact same thing in terms of like we want our loved ones or we want this community to have access to housing. We were very clear about that all the way through the process. Access to some form of mental health care that is best for them. And ultimately other services, other opportunities, being able to make their own choices, have access and and opportunities to have jobs so that they can provide for themselves. Like all of these things you and I have talked extensively about.

And I think one of the questions and one of the things like that you and I have have engaged on how do we bring in the other maybe smaller organizations or the organizations that don't have a lot of resources organizations that are fighting tooth and nail to hold on like what role do you think DRC can help kind of play for some of them as well?

Vanessa Ramos (37:01):

You know that, you know, what a generous question, Eric, and I really appreciate you thinking about community, you know, and community orgs in this way. You know, I know that one thing that became very apparent during Care Court is that there are organizations that are receiving funding through state and county grants and they're they felt very restricted. So even though they were opposed and they knew that that this was not that yes, something had to change and yes, we can totally see that people are suffering out on the streets and no, we're not saying this is okay. Like we know that something's got to give. We're just saying this is actually not it.

And and in moving forward, you know, I think that one of the things that Disability Rights California could do is really have more of that statewide network and that national network where conversation is ongoing so that we provide a form of mutual aid where you, Eric, are the Associate Director of External Affairs, and you oversee legislation, you oversee policy, right? You you staff lobbyists, you have legislative advocates, right? So, you have access to information that can really benefit other orgs. So I think that if we almost like train the trainer model you know if if we are able to come up with round table discussions where we share the knowledge but we also learn from community on what those solutions are, but not just learn from – for them and stand on ideology.

I'm talking about and I know this is unpopular at DRC, but this is just the truth. I have had friends who told me, "Vanessa, I hurt my family member." Like, I needed to be in a locked place. Like, I wanted that. I wanted to be in a setting where I needed like when I came to and when I realized what I needed, I didn't want to go home after. Like, I needed a step down. I needed a place to go or like, "Hey, Vanessa," they weren't going to release me out into the community. So, even if the community-based services exist, because of the law that I broke or because of this, that or what have you, I'm never going to just be released out. So, rather than be in this intense hospital, like I do want that step down option, right?

And the reason why I say that, Eric, is I'm not promoting forced care or or voluntary care. I'm saying that we need to better understand what is the continuum of care that meets people where they are and that provides the support to people's real-life needs. Not what we believe in ideologically, not what we believe in a utopian world, but in real t— in real time, how do we help get people out of these jail environments and into services where their health care needs are met?

And this takes mature conversations. And I just want to give, you know, a short shout out to our board member Keris Myrick who has for years talked about the importance of including family members for for years has talked about the importance of having versatility right in the services that that people have access to. So rather than us standing on ideology, how do we start to invite family members and how do we start to invite you know conversations in that maybe go against what we have been taught is wrong and how do we respect the journey of somebody else while uplifting the rights the the protections, right? How do we strengthen statewide patients rights advocacy?

We know that with the passing of Prop 1, there's going to be so many facilities that are built. And honestly, Eric, some are good, some are bad, and there's ugly parts, meaning there's services that are going to be cut. So, we know that if there's going to be an expansion of services, all those new clients are going to need access to patients’ rights advocates. Has the state prepared their workforce in that way? Right? Who are the patients' rights advocates that are going to be there for these people that are now going to be receiving some of the care? You know, how do we learn from the substance use community treatment service models that started peer-based and have had so much success?

I'll give you an example. In substance use treatment, when you would go into detox, you go to detox, then you'd go into residential. As you navigate your residential treatment stay, you would end up getting a job. You would end up moving into transitional living, right? You would end up going to school. You would end up, you know, growing in your role if you wanted to stay and become a substance use counselor. And many of my friends are now running the same treatment centers that they were a part of like the detox. They were once in detox. Now they're running the facility. And I think the reason for this is because in the substance use treatment world, recovery is possible.

Eric Harris (43:20):

Yeah.

Vanessa Ramos (43:21):

People can and do get clean. What I've noticed is that in the mental health services lane, if you have an emergency, you don't go to detox, right? You get 5150, you go into a psych hospital. If you go into a psych hospital, the setting in its nature is very cold. It's very limiting, right? The doctors are the ones that have the the top say, right? If you if you leave the a 5150 unit, a psych unit, and you know, you may end up in an outpatient place, right? But the the the type of services that you receive are still very much dictated by a medicalized model, which I do believe that some medicine can be helpful.

But what I'm saying is that in the mental health lane, the way that the career path or the life path of a person has been very much minimized to make sure you're on your medication, and have a great life. It it isn't based in employment. It isn't based in, you know, you know, your environment. It's not based in the eight dimensions of wellness, right? It's not about financial literacy. It's not about you know you can recover, you can go on to do great things. Often times that system is very limited because the top of that level is normally like a psychiatrist and not another person in recovery. So I just say that to uplift peer support services as its own model of care that can work hand in hand with other disciplines including the therapists and the psychiatrists and things of that sort. But that framework I believe is missing the influence and the input from the person that is living a life in recovery from their illness.

And I understand, Eric, that there are some people whose struggles may look a little different. And I do believe that their natural supports can be keen on helping develop these systems. But currently, I think we've been pinned against each other. Right. Meanwhile, things are being built without our input, which is leaving the person needing care at the end of the line and not at the beginning of the line. While politicians have to come up with these band-aid solutions. And currently in Care Court, most of the money is going into building out the actual court system, right? The process system. We're not seeing a huge increase of services available there. There was already a workforce shortage, right? How — where are these bodies gonna come from to help people heal

Eric Harris (46:21):

And I, you know, I think that to to your point and you and I have talked about this before too. Because we still have a housing crisis in California, right? Like whether it's the lack of housing, the expense of housing, all of it being connected, we still have a housing crisis. People are on the street, people are often, you know, living with housing insecurity where they got to go from place to place, etc.

And I think that we've acknowledged this is all in reaction to the visual homelessness that's in that you know we see in LA, San Diego, San Francisco, Oakland, Berkeley, Sacramento, all these big cities right throughout the throughout the state. And I know, you know, we're we're coming towards the end. We're we're in the fourth quarter, if you will, of our show. And I think one question and issue that we really want to try to tackle is how do we move forward? You know what I mean? Like these bills keep coming up. You know, the rhetoric continues. You have people who are who are in elected office who demean and put down folks who are unhoused and folks who are living with mental health disabilities. You have a lot of circumstances where in many cases peers and people with lived experience are not being listened to by anybody. They're not being respected.

So what would you say in terms of like how can we move forward? How can we move forward together? And how can we move forward with hope and like believing that like some of this stuff is going to move in a better direction?

Vanessa Ramos (48:23):

Thanks for that question, Eric. You know, I you know, localized fights, I think, are still really important. You know, I think, you know, for people that, you know, are interested in, you know, some of these issues, whether it be, you know, housing or mental health related issues, I think it's really important to like stop by your local county mental health office and ask them, hey, if if I need services, what do I need to do to enroll?

You know, if my family member needs services, like we need to be our own key informants. Like, we need to navigate that process, right? We need to ask, hey, you know, let's make the call. Hey, if I'm seeking housing, I'm unhoused. If I'm seeking housing, how long is it going to take me to be housed? Right?

And I think it's also Eric about really understanding the diversity of people that we're speaking to where, you know, I really want to uplift the the the no more bill policy, right? That that that you're really leading the the no more bad bills, the no more amendment culture. You know, I think the reason why that's so important, Eric, is because if we're really going to get to that place that you that you'd like for us to be where legislation and policy is coming out of the disability community, you know, and including their their their loved ones. If we're really going to build together, we can't waste time fighting, you know, for an amendment, that's a lot of time that's wasted.

I think rather than spending time on investing on like what what would make this bad bill better, I think picking up the phone and having conversations, I know that I've had the great honor of speaking to people like Dr. Emily Wood, you know, who helped write SB43, who I, you know, as as someone as a harm reductionist, as someone in in, you know, long-term recovery from substance use. I was like, Dr. Wood, like, why would you include substance use? Like, what people are being cons- are going to be able to be 5150'ed for being on drugs? Like, what you know?

But by sitting down and by talking with her directly, I learned the why that happened, which has helped me better shape, you know, the specific the the specific points that I want to make sure that in Los Angeles County, the county where I live, right, that certain pieces aren't confused, because in speaking directly to Dr. Wood I learned, oh, the reason why they included substance use was because if you have a mental health need or if if you appear gravely disabled and the minute that you test positive for drugs, it becomes an insurance thing. Are you going to be in the mental health wing? Are you going to be in the substance use wing? Right? It gets very confusing.

Also, you know, in working closely with Dr. Brian Hurley from Los Angeles County Substance Abuse Prevention and Control, I was able, you know, to learn from him. Yes, Vanessa, this is true. For substance use alone, that is not grounds for grave disability. Now, if the person is exhibiting a series of other behaviors, then that is what the person will be held on. But, if I just don't engage with anyone in my local county because they're the enemy, or I don't engage with somebody who had something to do with this bill, then I'm missing out on the opportunity to better understand the why. And that's where I strongly believe, Eric, that the hope is in loving each other. The hope is in for me personally. I pray, you know, I ask God, you know, “Lord, give me the strength like allow me to grow in my capacity, you know, allow me to see what you need me to see. Lord, allow me to hear what you need me to hear. Like, help me understand why this is happening.”

And oftentimes, Eric, when I take the time to take care of myself, you know, and I take the time to care for my colleagues at DRC and I take the time to care for people that are behaving in ways that I find unbearable, oftentimes the solution comes and the solutions do come in conversations. So, I, you know, I thank you so much for not only your time here today, Eric, but for your willingness to have virtual town hall conversations, for your willingness, you know, to host dialogues with family members, even if it looks on the front that we don't agree on things, right, to really have healthy debate, you know, I think that the way forward is an open dialogue, right? because we know that we're on the right side of history, you know, and and really, Eric, other people think that they're right as well, you know. So, how do we move towards a world where we get to be right together and we get to really invest in the health and the wholeness of not only the disabled person, but the ecosystem that surrounds them? Because when I'm good, my family's good, right? And if my family is not good, I'm not good. So, it's it's not one or the other. I think it's this collective power. So I think approaching things from a spirit of of curiosity, you know, I think approaching things from a spirit of integrity, you know, which requires a lot of self-care.

Carolina and I work closely and you work closely with Wesley Witherspoon, who's also on our board. And Wesley teaches us so many things, but one of the things that Carolina told me that he said earlier today was, “Man, in life, you got to learn how to be your own best friend.” And you know, I thought, how real is that? You know, I need to know what my bandwidth is, right? I need to learn how to take care of myself so that I can better, you know, show up for others. And you know, an accessible world is a kinder world, you know. So, I think the more that we lean in with inclusion, with accessibility, with love, I think the you know, the better, you know, we will end up. So, I'm not sure if that fully answered your question, Eric, but you that's what I think.

Eric Harris (54:24):

I think you you tied a knot on on this first episode perfectly, Vanessa. I really appreciate you and really excited. This was our first-ever podcast at Disability Rights California called “The Game Plan with Disability Rights California.” And I think this issue right now is the top issue for for Disability Rights California, for our colleagues, for advocacy partners. And I really, really think that a lot of people are going to be really appreciative of the work and of the information that we shared. And we will be sure to post a bunch of resources. So, if people are like, I heard them say this, but I have no idea what they were talking about, we're going to have it available so that people can follow up, so that people can do their own research. And as Vanessa said, we're gonna keep having the conversations. So, so it was wonderful to to connect with you on this. And I am so fortunate that I get to work with you every day and and navigate these spaces. Because it's it's a lot of work, but but we're we're about that life. So, I I think it's really helpful and really wonderful to have you on our side.

Vanessa Ramos (56:45):

Thank you so much, Eric. Thank you so much for having me. And I love being a part of the Disability Rights California team, you know, and you know, if anyone wants to reach out, you know, they could find me on social media, you know, and email me, call me, you know, and I'm sure we'll post my information, my contact information. I'd love to, you know, get in touch with people. Sorry, Eric, but just very briefly, you know, I just wanted to highlight the beautiful work that you and so many others primarily Dolores Canales led with the fight against solitary confinement because I think with the Mandela campaign, you know, we were able to see what happens when people impacted are leading the fights rather than when the policy people are leading the fights. I think like the Mandela the the fight against solitary started very policy, very lawyery, you know, and I remember Pamila Lew saying, "What about Dolores Canales?" And I remember when when when we brought Dolores in, you know, with immigrant defense advocates, right, Hamid and Jackie, it was it really shifted the movement, right? It's like we saw policy even if the bill had not passed and did not pass, we saw that community has been built, right? And there's conversations that that are held because of those fights.

So, whether a bill passes or or fails, that's really not what's important to us, right? Like we're in it, you know, for the long haul, for the long game. We want to build, you know, community out naturally and and organically. So, I don't know if that made sense, but I mean, feel free to edit that out if you need it.

Eric Harris (58:40):

And we always appreciate it, Vanessa. And I think you're exactly right. I mean, our goal here at Disability Rights California is to always have disabled people lead, empower them, and encourage them, and be alongside them, be — however we could be supportive, that's what we do. And that's how how we've done this advocacy. So once again, it was wonderful to have you on our very first episode of “The Game Plan with Disability Rights California,” and I look forward to the next steps and all the things that that we're going to be involved in moving forward.

Vanessa Ramos (59:16):

Thank you so much.

Voiceover (59:18):

This has been The Game Plan, a production of Disability Rights California. Please like, subscribe, and comment on the platform of your choice. See you next time.